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karl rove was the biggest looser of 2012. he lost 10 out of 12 senate seats, lost 4 out of 9 of their house seats, donald trump accused him of blowing $400 million in this, so why would anybody trust karl rove with another dime, number 1? and the real question that i have is how much money is karl rove making out of this deal? i think this is another scam to fatten karl rove's pockets. >> jennifer: that's a really important point that these sort of advisors to these pacs he is probably gets some kind of percentage or direct salary that he is benefitting from enormously. >> exactly. >> jennifer: jason should democrats worry about this or should they exploit this conservative victory project? >> you know, a wise confederate general once said don't get anywhere near a circular firing squad. it's not wise to let the democrats get anywhere near this. and the reality is not only is karl rove simply lining his pockets, but this is the difficult birthing process that any party goes through when they lost consecutive elections. just l
karl rove was the biggest looser of 2012. he lost 10 out of 12 senate seats, lost 4 out of 9 of their house seats, donald trump accused him of blowing $400 million in this, so why would anybody trust karl rove with another dime, number 1? and the real question that i have is how much money is karl rove making out of this deal? i think this is another scam to fatten karl rove's pockets. >> jennifer: that's a really important point that these sort of advisors to these pacs he is probably...
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and karl rove can't organize it. neither can any of the other people who played with that power but who now can't control it. >> so those who rode the tiger are now inside the tiger. >> exactly. >> don't forget, the chamber of commerce, at very times, made common cause with the antigovernment, anti-tax, anti-everything. they were willing to get in bed with him at certain points. and now they're paying for it. and karl is trying to unwind what he's wound. >> he's like a track tout. i used to go and after the races were over, they would show you who they'd recommend you'd bet on. it was always the winners that pass out the free picks. i would have bet on this guy. that's rove out there saying i would have had all of these winners picked, we would have won all of these general elections and now everybody realizes we're going to go over it in a minute. but your thoughts? >> now, i totally agree with howard. your analogy there. the problem for karl is we have all the betting slips. his two organizations, american cross ro
and karl rove can't organize it. neither can any of the other people who played with that power but who now can't control it. >> so those who rode the tiger are now inside the tiger. >> exactly. >> don't forget, the chamber of commerce, at very times, made common cause with the antigovernment, anti-tax, anti-everything. they were willing to get in bed with him at certain points. and now they're paying for it. and karl is trying to unwind what he's wound. >> he's like a...
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Feb 5, 2013
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realized that karl rove redistributed their wealth. there will be a wider appeal in the extreme candidate even though they don't all think that rape victims should be entitled to an abortion. do you think rove should win with this using the same ideology with a different hat? >> it depends on if your definition of win is "make more money." you said it yourself. he woke up that morning with a lot of explaining to do. the his explanation was that we have to push back against the todd aiken and grover norquist. you do this by you giving me money and i buy up a lot of air time etc. i can understand the impetus but karl rove, basically he's a snake oil salesman and this was the eastest easiest thing for him to sell. the party is in big trouble. what appeals to the constituents in these districts does not appeal to a broad swath of americans. karl rove is finding the angle in which to make a lot of money and i suspect he will win in that regard. >> john: he takes their money and bernie madeff sands in awe. sam seder and joe williams, thank y
realized that karl rove redistributed their wealth. there will be a wider appeal in the extreme candidate even though they don't all think that rape victims should be entitled to an abortion. do you think rove should win with this using the same ideology with a different hat? >> it depends on if your definition of win is "make more money." you said it yourself. he woke up that morning with a lot of explaining to do. the his explanation was that we have to push back against the...
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Feb 7, 2013
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you're karl rove. not a good guy necessarily, but a smart guy. you're haley barbour. you're chris christie, one of these thoughtful people in the republican party you can argue. how are you going to stop these people from running if fay want to? >> cash. >> how do you stop them if they have money behind them? >> money talks, right? if you don't want this guy to win and you've got the koch brothers and you have adelson there, that's why they have a pac, right? >> that worked well for romney. here is the deal money can't buy you, authenticity. >> they're authentic, i hate to tell you. they're the real thing. >> they're authentic to the point where -- if you're authentic in your irrationality, great. you'll appeal to the irrational people. but when this guy says the earth was formed -- hold on. when the earth was formed 9,000 years ago and we started farming 10,000 years ago, it's insane. >> we have to come back to the fact that they have a base, that people like this have been elected. >> exactly. they have been. >> you know, i look at mourdock, he won. i like at akin,
you're karl rove. not a good guy necessarily, but a smart guy. you're haley barbour. you're chris christie, one of these thoughtful people in the republican party you can argue. how are you going to stop these people from running if fay want to? >> cash. >> how do you stop them if they have money behind them? >> money talks, right? if you don't want this guy to win and you've got the koch brothers and you have adelson there, that's why they have a pac, right? >> that...
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look, karl rove is -- this is sort of classic karl rove where on the face of it, it looks like what he's doing is, as you suggest, you know, very sort of self-beneficial. he ends up being someone who benefits from this, but at the same time it's something, as i said before, it's something that the republican party needs to do. the republican party cannot afford to have steve israel run for senate and lose -- >> you mean steve king? >> say that again? i'm sorry, steve king. >> steve israel, democrat -- >> yes. >> karl rove likes to pretend it was todd akin and richard mourdock who lost the election but wasn't it george w. bush, the monster to karl rove's dr. frankenstein who lost the election for republicans? >> well, he certainly did his part. i would -- as did karl rove. >> exactly. >> wouldn't you love to be in the meetings with donors when the donor says tell us what you've been up to recently, karl? what races have you won? that's going ton an interesting meeting. more importantly, one of the things i find so interesting, there's an element of chickens coming home to roost because wh
look, karl rove is -- this is sort of classic karl rove where on the face of it, it looks like what he's doing is, as you suggest, you know, very sort of self-beneficial. he ends up being someone who benefits from this, but at the same time it's something, as i said before, it's something that the republican party needs to do. the republican party cannot afford to have steve israel run for senate and lose -- >> you mean steve king? >> say that again? i'm sorry, steve king. >>...
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details on a "the new york times" report that karl rove plans to make sure candidates don't become the nominees in key senate races. nbc's first read team says it is going to be ugly. >>> plus, police say they're doing, quote, everything humanly possible to end the hostage standoff in alabama that's now in the seventh day. neighbors are now even collecting birthday cards for the little boy being held in that underground bunker. he turns 6 this week. former negotiator clint van zant will join me. >>> first, officials rule out one cause of the super bowl blackout. the sudden power outage in the game's second half not caused by electrical work done in december. that was one of the theories. power company and the company that manages the super dome says it originated where a power line meets the dome's electrical system. ravens coach john harbaugh said he was stunned but proud of the team's handling of the delay. >> it was just crazy. we haven't seen that one before. it was new. changed the complexion. they did a great job and changed momentum. they swung and wasn't the lights or the power
details on a "the new york times" report that karl rove plans to make sure candidates don't become the nominees in key senate races. nbc's first read team says it is going to be ugly. >>> plus, police say they're doing, quote, everything humanly possible to end the hostage standoff in alabama that's now in the seventh day. neighbors are now even collecting birthday cards for the little boy being held in that underground bunker. he turns 6 this week. former negotiator clint...
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Feb 6, 2013
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karl rove wants to keep the fringies. and things like clinton did with school uniforms. and tell college students the jobs might be tough. what about the gun issue? should the republicans stick with the nra or tell wayne lapierre to get a real job? how could a party built other the decades on the people who left the democrats abandon those issues that attracted the rule south and the west people and the miners and the ranchers and the gun owners. and the people furious about immigration. how do you ban those people and keep a party? tonight an expert, a passionate believer that politics can get better. my colleague joe scarborough. here's the question. how do you keep this huge tent the republican party has built in the last 30 or 40 years with people from the south, the west, the miners, the ranchers, the religious right, all those people that have decided the republican party is their natural home and yet you have people in the fringe costing you your image. >> well, you've got to stand up to people on the fringe. you know, when parties go extreme they get roundly defe
karl rove wants to keep the fringies. and things like clinton did with school uniforms. and tell college students the jobs might be tough. what about the gun issue? should the republicans stick with the nra or tell wayne lapierre to get a real job? how could a party built other the decades on the people who left the democrats abandon those issues that attracted the rule south and the west people and the miners and the ranchers and the gun owners. and the people furious about immigration. how do...
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how dare karl rove and his money guys try to do any such thing. and so yes, paul broun and steve king may be the prototypical examples of the kind of off the cooke end candidates that karl rove and the big money guys do not want in republican politics, because those are the kind of guys that lose senate seats that are otherwise winnable. but karl rove and his money guys kind of stand alone in that assessment. the rest of the party wants that. they want those guys. and they want it not naively. they know what they are getting. steve king and paul broun have been around for a long time. when the party stands up and says these are the guys they want, they know who they're talking about. they know who these guys are. and it is what they choose. so if you were a republican party stalwart, if you were part of the republican party and you loved the republican party and you wanted what was best for the republican party, what would you do at a time like this? what would you say? how would you try to fix this problem? well, today in washington house majorit
how dare karl rove and his money guys try to do any such thing. and so yes, paul broun and steve king may be the prototypical examples of the kind of off the cooke end candidates that karl rove and the big money guys do not want in republican politics, because those are the kind of guys that lose senate seats that are otherwise winnable. but karl rove and his money guys kind of stand alone in that assessment. the rest of the party wants that. they want those guys. and they want it not naively....
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a candidate that perhaps karl rove will steer away from. paul broun, the georgia congressman running to replace saxby chambliss, and "the times" pointed out today, quote, mr. broun, a physician on the house science, space, and technology committee, attracted attention last fall for saying that, quote, evolution, embryology, and the big bang theory, all of that is lies straight from the pit of hell. i'll bet that plays well in his congressional district, but my hunch is that's not playing well even in a conservative state like georgia when you're talking statewide in the general. what do you say? >> well, of course, paul is going to get a lot of competition in that primary fight. you're going to be looking at guys like tom price and tom graves who have an incredibly strong record of fiscal conservatism. i think the core of the tea party, remember, is not social issues, it's not abortion, it's not immigration, it's not these other things. it's whether or not we should spend money we don't have. it's whether or not the government should live w
a candidate that perhaps karl rove will steer away from. paul broun, the georgia congressman running to replace saxby chambliss, and "the times" pointed out today, quote, mr. broun, a physician on the house science, space, and technology committee, attracted attention last fall for saying that, quote, evolution, embryology, and the big bang theory, all of that is lies straight from the pit of hell. i'll bet that plays well in his congressional district, but my hunch is that's not...
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>> you're talking about karl rove? >> i'm talking about karl rove. >> that is, it seems to me, john heilemann, a good question to ask. you go to karl rove, a guy that just got pasted in this last election. i know karl, i like karl. >> part of the past 20 years. >> he got pasted, and also some conservatives brought up, he was part of the bush administration that people like peg -- i'll say it peggy noonan, myself, others think destroyed the conservative movement by spending us into record debt. >> and you're seeing, you know, the immediate reaction among some parts of the conservative movement, parts of the tea party, more populist part of the party, attacking the group, saying that he's the karl rove and his allies, they have a bad record to run on and that they're deviating from the principles of true conservatism and they want to back sellouts. i think the main thing you're going to see over the course of this next cycle is a further deepening of the schism between the two kind of pieces of the republican party. the
>> you're talking about karl rove? >> i'm talking about karl rove. >> that is, it seems to me, john heilemann, a good question to ask. you go to karl rove, a guy that just got pasted in this last election. i know karl, i like karl. >> part of the past 20 years. >> he got pasted, and also some conservatives brought up, he was part of the bush administration that people like peg -- i'll say it peggy noonan, myself, others think destroyed the conservative movement by...
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gop donors are turning to karl rove to help weed out far right candidates in upcoming races. really? isn't he the guy who blew $300 million in the last election? whose super pac had a 1% success rate? yeah, that guy. and, boy is the tea party upset. freedom works slammed rove's group saying the empire is striking back. calling him orwellian. it's full-on gop warfare. it's gop civil war. joining me now is michael steele and dana millbank. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> good to see you, rev. >> michael, karl rove to save the party from the tea party, do you buy it? >> no, i don't. and i don't think many of the not just tea parties, but grass roots conservatives will. instead of taking those dollars out of the states and hunkering them down here in a newly created super pac in washington, how about investing in the state party organizations around the country to help them build the farm team that is going to be required to win in the future. this is not an overnight success deal, reverend. you cannot come from the s shellacking of '06 and '12 and throw dollars
gop donors are turning to karl rove to help weed out far right candidates in upcoming races. really? isn't he the guy who blew $300 million in the last election? whose super pac had a 1% success rate? yeah, that guy. and, boy is the tea party upset. freedom works slammed rove's group saying the empire is striking back. calling him orwellian. it's full-on gop warfare. it's gop civil war. joining me now is michael steele and dana millbank. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >>...
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. >> sean: a group backed by karl rove. karl rove is here and he will respond, coming up next. then tonight? >> the bottom line is all of those smears are absolutely false and that is the bottom line. >> another clinton-like denial. an angry senator bob menendez appears on camera for the first time denying allegations that he slept with underaged prostitutes. plus he is now placing blame on blogs called right wing for the story. we'll have thest on our investigation coming up straight ahead. so you say men are superior drivers? yeah. then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. ok. [ voice of dennis ] silence. are you in good hands? try align. it's the number one ge recommended probiotic c" that helps maintain digestive balance. ♪ stay in the groove with align. ♪ need help keeping yo digestive balance in sync? try align. it's a probiotic that fortifies your digestive system with healthy bacteria 24/7. because your insides set the tone. stay in the groove with align. i wish my patients
. >> sean: a group backed by karl rove. karl rove is here and he will respond, coming up next. then tonight? >> the bottom line is all of those smears are absolutely false and that is the bottom line. >> another clinton-like denial. an angry senator bob menendez appears on camera for the first time denying allegations that he slept with underaged prostitutes. plus he is now placing blame on blogs called right wing for the story. we'll have thest on our investigation coming up...
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karl rove's strategies are the worst i have ever seen. money given to him might as well be thrown down the drain. >> this from a guy who lost money on a casino. >> use your hair -- head -- you know what i mean. >> stephanie: i have tried to be helpful, by saying please don't fight. you are all losers. please. the tea party crazies and the republican establishment. all of you. >> the whole lot of yous. >> stephanie: there is another one in "politico." republicans and fox news moving to purge the controversial political creatures it created. now the develop with his dismal image, and fox news scrambling to dim those voices sarah palin, and dick norris two of the most obnoxious players. and karl rove sidelined to help get rid of the tea party crazies. >> whatever! >> stephanie: is that becoming like jumbo shrimp electable republicans? [ phyllis diller laughter ] >> kind of. >> stephanie: okay. >> and you are a poopy head. >> stephanie: exactly. right. we have grover norquist going poopy heads. they are the pee wee herman heads. there are two
karl rove's strategies are the worst i have ever seen. money given to him might as well be thrown down the drain. >> this from a guy who lost money on a casino. >> use your hair -- head -- you know what i mean. >> stephanie: i have tried to be helpful, by saying please don't fight. you are all losers. please. the tea party crazies and the republican establishment. all of you. >> the whole lot of yous. >> stephanie: there is another one in "politico."...
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. >>> plus the pack men, karl rove's new plan to pour cold water on the tea party and keep senate seats in the republican column. today's politics planner, as you can see, former president clinton will be speaking at ed koch's funeral, president obama is off to minneapolis and chris christie hits letterman. [ male announcer ] let's say you pay your guy around 2% to manage your money. that's not much, you think. except it's 2% every year. go to e-trade and find out how much our advice and guidance costs. spoiler alert: it's low. it's guidance on your terms, not ours. e-trade. less for us. more for you. more "likes." more tweets. so, beginning today, my son brock and his whole team will be our new senior social media strategists. any questions? since we make radiator valves wouldn't it be better if we just let fedex help us to expand to new markets? hmm gotta admit that's better than a few "likes." i don't have the door code. who's that? he won a contest online to be ceo for the day. how am i supposed to run a business here without an office?! [ male announcer ] fast, reliable deliveries
. >>> plus the pack men, karl rove's new plan to pour cold water on the tea party and keep senate seats in the republican column. today's politics planner, as you can see, former president clinton will be speaking at ed koch's funeral, president obama is off to minneapolis and chris christie hits letterman. [ male announcer ] let's say you pay your guy around 2% to manage your money. that's not much, you think. except it's 2% every year. go to e-trade and find out how much our advice...
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but why do they still have karl rove on their payroll? that's what i want to know. can't get everything right, i guess. have a good one folks. see you back here tomorrow. [♪ theme music ♪] >> stephanie: hello current tvland. well, it's official jacki schechner i will never be secretary of defense. >> how come? >> stephanie: they are holding up his nomination among other things they want some information about someone in his office that sexually harassed someone else. >> oh, and you would be more directly involved. >> stephanie: yes. >> i'm pretty sure chuck hagel never had to make that call the next morning. >> stephanie: oh to jacki? sorry, i know you are straight. >> i'm less worried about myself and more worried about t-bone and chris. good morning, everybody, white house counter terrorism chief and cia director john brennan will head up to the hill today for his confirmation hearings. he is facing tough questions. some congressional committees had access to a memo in june but now that it has been made entirely public, it is raising all sorts of concerns abou
but why do they still have karl rove on their payroll? that's what i want to know. can't get everything right, i guess. have a good one folks. see you back here tomorrow. [♪ theme music ♪] >> stephanie: hello current tvland. well, it's official jacki schechner i will never be secretary of defense. >> how come? >> stephanie: they are holding up his nomination among other things they want some information about someone in his office that sexually harassed someone else....
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. >> john: when karl rove agrees with you you might want to question what you're doing. but 83% of americans approve of drones. why are people so quick to accept this as the best option and reluctant to question it? >> well, it's never going to happen to them. they're not a terrorist so therefore it doesn't affect them. you have the talking heads discussing this issue day after day, trying to tell the american public based on two cases that the president has the authority to do this. it gives the president no authority to do the types of things to here. so for the fall-back is the use of military force, it was a bill passed in 2011 and it was the green light to kill americans on foreign soil. it was vague crazy talk by a gaggle of drafters who saw the opportunity to obliterate the 14th amendment by erasing checks and balances and destroying any sense of transparency. this was their opportunity john, to rush in, and obliterate the constitution even beyond what we saw down with gitmo and it was deplorable. >> john: mike, i respect people who say that this is how wars are g
. >> john: when karl rove agrees with you you might want to question what you're doing. but 83% of americans approve of drones. why are people so quick to accept this as the best option and reluctant to question it? >> well, it's never going to happen to them. they're not a terrorist so therefore it doesn't affect them. you have the talking heads discussing this issue day after day, trying to tell the american public based on two cases that the president has the authority to do...
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plus, details on a "the new york times" that says karl rove is taking on the tea party. an we're getting new information about the investigation in to the blackout during the super bowl. what happened? and what they're looking at this hour. come on. nowadays, lots of people go by themselves. no they don't. yeah... hey son. have fun tonight. ♪ prom! [ laughs ] ♪ ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ back against the wall ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ keep you down and make you crawl ♪ ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ cut you down when you feel tall ♪ ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ ain't nothin to me [ crowd murmurs ] [ cheering ] hey! ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ [ howls ] ♪ that's a good thing, but it doesn't cover everything. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. call today to request a free decision
plus, details on a "the new york times" that says karl rove is taking on the tea party. an we're getting new information about the investigation in to the blackout during the super bowl. what happened? and what they're looking at this hour. come on. nowadays, lots of people go by themselves. no they don't. yeah... hey son. have fun tonight. ♪ prom! [ laughs ] ♪ ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ back against the wall ♪ ain't nothin to me ♪ keep you down and make you crawl ♪ ♪...
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we saw karl rove come out. he's talking about raising money to bring more moderate republicans out. the problem is it will intensify a civil war at least in terms of policy as we hear more and more details. >> that's exactly right. and we're already sort of seeing that play out with the immigration debate. you know, it all sounds good to say okay we have to solve the problem and to spell out broad principles. but when you actually get down to what are we going to do about the people that are here. how are we going to come up with a path to citizenship that makes sense and is fair and respects the fact that we are a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws when you get down to the specifics there's a huge split in the party. >> where we find the common ground. abby, you quoted your father as saying compromise is krital to fixing the gop. the quote was in my party compromise cannot be seen as analogous to treason. which it has been seen recently. your daddy was right. i love quoting your daddy to you. i want somebody to do that to my daughters develop ahead. >> it's compromise but it
we saw karl rove come out. he's talking about raising money to bring more moderate republicans out. the problem is it will intensify a civil war at least in terms of policy as we hear more and more details. >> that's exactly right. and we're already sort of seeing that play out with the immigration debate. you know, it all sounds good to say okay we have to solve the problem and to spell out broad principles. but when you actually get down to what are we going to do about the people that...
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the "new york times" reports that the karl rove-led american crossroads group, which spent over $170 million in 2012 to questionable results is setting up the conservative victory project, an organization with the goal of recruiting less extreme candidates. crossroad president steve law said "our approach will be to institutionalize the buckley rule. support the most conservative candidate who can win." an important caveat. the buckley rule has its opponents, namely adhere ens of the limbaugh rule. rush's 2010 counter edict that you vote for the most conservative republican in the primary, period. rush's rule was pronounced not surprisingly on the day of the christine o'donnell won her party's delaware primary where she would go on to be crushed in the general election and become the poster child for tea party folly and witches. still, word of rove's establishment maneuverings over the weekend immediately wrainkled many on the right who saw it as a distinct cave-in to dast adviserly moderates. any candidate who gets this group's support should be targeted for destruction by the conse
the "new york times" reports that the karl rove-led american crossroads group, which spent over $170 million in 2012 to questionable results is setting up the conservative victory project, an organization with the goal of recruiting less extreme candidates. crossroad president steve law said "our approach will be to institutionalize the buckley rule. support the most conservative candidate who can win." an important caveat. the buckley rule has its opponents, namely adhere...
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. >> it has to annoy you that karl rove gets to stay on. he was a guy saying the election result on the night was wrong. they had to stand up. kelly had to stop running down the corridor. >> the divorce isn't final, but i am seeing other people. >> fox news' ratings have plummeted since the election. quite dramatically. down 22% in the key demographic. and in prime time, down 40% in the demo, it's lowest demo number since may 2006. it seems from the outside, and they would do this to us, that fox has got some real problems right now. one of the reasons is that they just called this election so badly wrong. and they may have driven the party and mitt romney down the wrong alley. >> apart from whether you blame fox or not, i'm not going to get into that. but i believe that the republicans were horribly hurt among women by the crazy extremists who said that rape won't make you pregnant and it's an act of god. on the other hand, democrats are hurt by those who say third trimester abortions are fine. abortion should be rare. and we have to under
. >> it has to annoy you that karl rove gets to stay on. he was a guy saying the election result on the night was wrong. they had to stand up. kelly had to stop running down the corridor. >> the divorce isn't final, but i am seeing other people. >> fox news' ratings have plummeted since the election. quite dramatically. down 22% in the key demographic. and in prime time, down 40% in the demo, it's lowest demo number since may 2006. it seems from the outside, and they would do...
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that's kind of how i view karl rove. i don't think he is done. i think he still has too many connections. >> i'll concede. ed, i will concede when i wrote the kicker to that piece and made that statement, you know, if you take that in isolation, it sounds pretty conclusive and final. i know karl viewed it that way. but i take your point. >> quickly, howard, how unpopular is mitch mcconnell in kentucky? could he be in trouble? >> well, put it this way -- first all, the republican base doesn't really like him. partly because he is from louisville. partly because he is an insider in washington. he has never been wildly popular in the state. and he is not really down home friendly kind of guy in the kentucky mold. he has never been wildly popular. he is not hated, he is just not liked. >> howard fineman, great to have you on tonight. thank you so much. >> thanks, ed. >> that's "the ed show" tonight. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. melissa filling tonight. >> thanks at home for you staying with us the next hour. rachel has the night off, bu
that's kind of how i view karl rove. i don't think he is done. i think he still has too many connections. >> i'll concede. ed, i will concede when i wrote the kicker to that piece and made that statement, you know, if you take that in isolation, it sounds pretty conclusive and final. i know karl viewed it that way. but i take your point. >> quickly, howard, how unpopular is mitch mcconnell in kentucky? could he be in trouble? >> well, put it this way -- first all, the...